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An extract from MSN/Nine News today
I thought this was quite interesting, strange bedfellows our American cousins sleep with wouldn’t you agree?
Australian Federal Police defends role in Bali Nine arrest
COUNTRIES WHICH STILL HAVE THE DEATH PENALTY
There are 58: Afghanistan, Antigua and Barbuda, The Bahamas, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Barbados, Belarus, Belize, Botswana, Chad, China, Comoros, Democratic Republic of Congo, Cuba, Dominica, Egypt, Equatorial Guinea, Ethiopia, Gambia, Guatemala, Guinea, Guyana, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Jamaica, Japan, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Lesotho, Libya, Malaysia, Nigeria, North Korea, Oman, Pakistan, Palestinian Authority, Qatar, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Somalia, South Sudan, Sudan, Syria, Taiwan, Thailand, Trinidad And Tobago, Uganda, United Arab Emirates, United States Of America, Vietnam, Yemen and Zimbabwe
LordBeariOfBow 
The death penalty in the US is a disaster. It has resulted in murder of innocents and several hundred wrongful convictions. Texas alone executes more citizens than most nations.
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The death penalty anywhere is a tragedy in any country but I believe more so for a country that tries to project itself as the number one world leader. As for Texas, I recall reading where one governor of that state declared that he’d spend all of 15 minutes mulling over whether to grant clemency or not. and only agreed not to grant it with deep regret. That hypocrite of course was Geo W Bush who went on to be known around Europe as the Executioner, not POTUS.
I still shake my head in disbelief that the last public execution occured in my lifetime back in 1936 before a huge gathering with all the hot dog sellers doing a roaring trade, the executioner was drunk and couldn’t do his job which then fell on the sheriff which happened to be a woman who blanched at the thought of having to hang the victim and one of her helpers came to the rescue.
Why doesn’t Hollywood make a movie of that, be one helluva comedy!
Land of the free, home of the brave? I’ll have to think about that somemore 😀
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I think there is a place for the death penalty. The issues raised are valid, but the reaction is back-assward.
Fix the issues, keep the penalty.
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I shall always remain at odds with you on his point Emilio, it serves no useful purpose whatsoever, a barbaric religious action, seriously I’d have thought you’d have been in agreement with me on this point for that very simple reason. I don’t think you can fix the issues without getting rid of the death penalty.
Some years ago back in the 80s a bloke I knew fairly well strangled his girl friend, he never ran away from the scene he called a friend and when he arrived they called the police. There was really no trial, he pleaded guilty to murder and received the mandatory life sentence, which he served in one of Australia’s toughest prisons. My brother-in-law who was one of his real frends visited him in jail regularly for some 15 years at which time the culprit was entitled to apply for release on parole. Normally the culprit would be deported to the country of origin if a migrant an this man was,it was always done automatically. However in this case sense prevailed.
Whilst in prison the murderer educated himself and helped other miscreants but that’s too long a story for here. My brother-in-law cameto me and told me that all of the prisoners friends and he still retained many, were upset that he was to be deported back to England and asked me to write a petition for them to sign, which I did. This petition was apparently signed by many more than just his friends from pre murder days, people from the jail relatives of those he’d helped in jail the list went on and the petition was successful; so much so that upon his release the government instead of deporting him employed him to work in the system helping prisoners but more importantly helping the administrators, he became an adviser to the governments of NSW and I don’t doubt that he got well paid for his efforts.
The last time I saw him was some years ago at a club, he was with a group of his old mates. He was the saddest most lonely looking man I’ve ever seen the only word to discribe him was haunted.
Hell EJ this reply almost longer than the blog 😀
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Good for him . . . but, for every instance you can give me of people rehabilitating, I can give you 3 of people not rehabilitating (statistics). Further, of hurting more victims, and even killing again.
So, now what? You are correct we won’t agree on this, but it’s for a very strange reason.
You cannot give me a good reason of why the death penalty is “barbaric”. Any more so than you can give me a reason a life sentence is not “barbaric”.
At the very base of this argument is the idea that somehow removing certain elements from society, specifically violent individuals capable of killing, is a bad thing.
The other foundation of the argument is the mythical value of human life.
Since when, and according to who?
I think that value is should not be granted all willy nilly.
One is not born with it, but rather has to be earn it, and willingly hurting someone comes up with a huge negative on my scale. If it wasn’t for self-defense or in defense of others, going postal on someone holds no excuse in my book (it’s a very draconian book). Further, even one instance proves to me the person cannot be trusted to not get physical again, cannot be trusted to control themselves.
On the basis of potential future victims alone, they should be removed from society.
Note, I don’t advocate it’s a deterrent, or that it’s punishment, or FSM forbid that it’s justice . . . no; it’s the removal of dangerous individuals from society, something society had to do in our distant past to get where we are today.
Apparently, we are now more “humane”, whatever that means.
The thing is, life in prison is not any more palatable when someone is innocent.
I will wager there are many innocent lives wasted in prison than are innocent people executed. I can say this for the very simple reason that capital cases get more scrutiny, longer processes, more champions on both sides.
The point is the system is screwed up, and instead of fixing it, we talk of modifying the end result. There are countries who rightly hold life sentences are also cruel and unusual punishment. Do you know the criteria they use? What if they are innocent? What if they repent? What if they rehabilitate?
Let’s go back to the beginning . . . why did they get violent to begin with?
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“Let’s go back to the beginning . . . why did they get violent to begin with?”
Who knows and does anybody care? I suspect not and especially not from the do gooders and holy roller hypocrites. Do we blame the parents if so do we then have to look at the parents parents and so on and so on, who really cares?
I must admit that I don’t but I do care about the way in which supposedly normal sane people; dare I say or hope ‘like me’; treat those that can’t think sanely and rationally and distinguish between what’s acceptable and what’s not by their fellow creatures.What gives us the right to kill them? I can think of none for I certainly cannot accept the eye for an eye religous doctrine
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Let me put it a simpler way so that I am not confused with some religious dolt . . .
. . . hurt someone, kill someone, you are to my eyes no better than a rabid dog.
As much as I like dogs, I don’t ponder the reasons why some might have turned rabid, and don’t concern myself with trying to cure them, reason with them, or hope they will someday save their owners from a house fire . . . my approach is to put them down as quickly and with as little suffering as possible.
Do I like killing dogs? No.
Do I recognize the logic behind it? Yes.
. . . and you still have not explained why the death penalty is “barbaric” and why life in prison is not.
Where I to use your semi-insulting argument, it probably comes from some misgotten notion that only god can grant and take life. Is your religious upbringing shining through?
Or do you have a logical reason why the permanent removal of proven dangerous individuals from society is a bad thing? Because it sounds to me a lot like what I hear from most people . . . the belief that one is somehow themselves elevated in stature in the eyes of others by placing value on the life of a being just because said being is “human” and regardless of what kind of person they are.
The whole idea of what a society “should do”, “should aspire to”, should this, should that, how humans should aspire to a higher calling, all of that I find disgusting and self-serving.
It comes down to people who do not have to deal with murderers, thugs, rapists, child molesters, and broccoli eaters, people insulated from contact with the dregs of society, people who have little to no chance of running afoul of some psychopath, have little chance of themselves being the targets of slimeballs they would “save”. Those are the people who are out there waving flags of tolerance and compassion.
Sorry; that’s not me. I’m all about everyone having the right to walk about unharmed, secure, and without the worry of having their head smashed in by someone, being assaulted or even just beaten up and robbed.
. . . unfortunately, I’m not king, and will likely never be.
. . . and the world is the worse for it . . .
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egad ej you don’t suspect me of being religous do you? It’snot some sort of religious thing I just think it’s pointless. I would have no qualms of having my dog Coco put down if I thought he was suffering and there was no chance of bringing permanent relief just as I’m all for having me put down if I’m in the same boat, I’m a firm believer in euthanasia and the right to live or die and assisted suicide. But I cannot see any point or use in putting people down just because they have offended us, what does it achieve and what satisfaction is there in it? If I kill a killer does that not then make me a killer? Stuck in jail out of harms way and unable to offend again I don’t think is barbaric, might not be very nice but I’d hardly call it barbaric, they are fed and well looked after compared to many who have to fend for themselves.
As for you; I would to see a lot more like you in the US of A, you strike me as a pretty decent sort of human being even though you at times portray yourself as some sort of villain, you’d never do harm if you can do good and that ain’t religious ! I’d outlaw the practice; I’ve just got rid of a tradesman who came to give a qute on some repairs, and he knew of my impending operation, ( I imagine my wife told him) and he asked me if I was religious and I told him I was an atheist from way back when and he told me to say a little prayer before I went under and I told him that there were enough idiots saying them for me in the local catholic church ( my chums have me on some sort of prayer list) and many buddys in the USA doing likewise and that I was putting my faith where it belongs. In the hands of the surgeons!
So cheer up ej and start picking me for being a pom/limey no hoper! 😀
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Only repaying you in kind for insinuating the “an eye for an eye” doctrine as my motivation.
And, I never said “death to people who offended us”. Those are your words.
Now, think carefully about your next statement:
“If I kill a killer does that not then make me a killer?”
Yes, it makes you a killer. So? How many people served in the military and killed others. They were killers, and we pin medals on many of them. Some say they did what had to be done.
Sure, war is horrible, but sometimes one has little choice. Our current president and the world are under pressure to do something about ISIS. I don’t think life in prison is anywhere in the list of how we should respond.
Terrorists, gang members, and criminals of all ilk are routinely killed by cops (even in the oh-so-progressive Australia). We give the Police that authority and no one sits up at night fretting much about it. But take the same person who we lose hardly any sleep over, and throw him in a cell, and now it’s not proper to end their sorry ass. Again, I fail to see the logic, and you have not provided any.
Finally, this little gem of yours:
“Stuck in jail out of harms way and unable to offend again I don’t think is barbaric.”
Interesting. You give no thought to guards who are injured and killed keeping you safe from the killers. For that matter, you give no thought to other prisoners who might themselves be killed and victimized by completely amoral and ruthless people.
But, I guess as long as we’re safe, and someone else gets to pay the cost for us “feeling safe and not all barbaric-like”, I guess it’s OK.
Yes, I am a little harsh. Make that a lot harsh.
I get annoyed and make no effort to hold the annoyance back. The majority of people, apparently you included, would rather see a violent criminal continue their lifetime of harming others rather than, FSM forbid, soil our conscience with putting down the equivalent of rabid dogs.
Now, we could continue this discussion, but not until you explain why you find the death penalty barbaric. I’m still waiting for a reasonable explanation. Or, failing that (I don’t think one is forthcoming), a rationalization of why we, as a society, differentiate between groups of killers, according some the sanctity of life and without hardly a blink having no problem enabling the death of others, sometimes en-mass.
I’ll repeat. Fix the problems (for example, open up all capital cases to DNA evidence, review by impartial prosecutors who are not political appointees and have nothing to gain by convicting based on questionable evidence, assign out-of-state labs to review evidence, and most of all update how we treat witnesses and forensic evidence to reflect what we have learned in the last 80+ years of both research in the workings of the brain and in forensic knowledge) and keep the death penalty.
Some dogs need to be put down, and we should recognize that. .
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and on that note perhaps we should end this discussion ej with me agreeing that some dogs should be put down. The problems in the US are obviously worse than here in Australia (as you know we have very strict gun control here and very little in the way of murders, which is not as a result of those laws) and I say that honestly and I’m sure we will agree on that and that puts us at odds.
Now; can we be chums/buddies again?
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Wait . . . when did we stop being chums?
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never!
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